/home/bill/Documents/140906 NPA Glenn Baxter - Identifying Scientific Assumptions, Part 3.txt http://fuze.me/25988938 Glenn Albert Baxter At the core of any scientific theory or scientist is his or her assumptions. To write down your own major scientific assumptions is a very interesting exercise. Our Physics Monday Morning Conference Call discussion group has done just that, and some of the results are discussed and/or compared here. ************** Interesting comments by others : Greg Volk - I agree with Harry Ricker. I think that he confusion between mass and matter is at the core of what is wrong with physics today. You have made that assumption, but should be aware that this is an important point for others. Harry Ricker - Mass is measured in mass spectrographs with the assumption that the charge is always the same for all isotopes. It also involves binding energy, ?which I don't deeply understand (the assumptions therein...?)? *********** Howell's comments *********** Full chat Al Schrader2 to Everyone: Good morning Al Schrader2 to Everyone: Not getting sound or video Franklin Hu to Everyone: I am getting sound & video Al Schrader2 to Everyone: Frank is Greg there ? Al Schrader2 to Everyone: Frank SLIDE 1 says/physicsunivesity . What university ? Franklin Hu to Everyone: Greg is here. The university is something that Glen (the speaker) sponsors. Al Schrader2 to Everyone: Can you have Greg connect the sound ? What is the university name ? Al Schrader2 to Everyone: The university name ? Al Schrader2 to Everyone: Did you know they are building an even bigger LHC collider ? Franklin Hu to Everyone: The sound is fine, there must be something not working on your end. Al Schrader2 to Everyone: It said something about downloading the software but no link Greg Volk to Everyone: http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?tab0=Events&tab1=Display&id=657 Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Ok got sound and vid. Had to use Fuze icon not email link Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Says Roger Anderton but cam is positioned too high Franklin Hu to Everyone: Yup, only Roger is showing - he should turn off his camera ... Al Schrader3 to Everyone: He needs to sit on a phonebook Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I live 10 miles from the Moon launch pads Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Roger, can you correct your camera angle ? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: TY Franklin Hu to Everyone: Roger should turn off his camera because he isn't the speaker. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Cam is great, just not oriented Al Schrader3 to Everyone: mc^2 = E is more powerful Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Mass and energy interchange. I discovered why Franklin Hu to Everyone: No they don't - violation of conservation of mass and energy. Franklin Hu to Everyone: two wrongs don't make a right ... Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I found the answers and it's amazing trust me Franklin Hu to Everyone: Send it to me, I'd like to be amazed. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: c2 is the number of photons Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Mass comes and goes. Only energy is conserved. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Matter is made of light Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Roger have a slide of it ? Franklin Hu to Everyone: Well, that's not amazing and you haven't explained anything, you just pushed the question to how matter is made out of light - which is an even more bizzare concept. Lou LaFollette to Everyone: I agree Al. Please send me your answers as well Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Show us on the cam Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Not bizzare at all, is E = mc^2 Franklin Hu to Everyone: Show me how matter is made out of light. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can add or subtract photons to matter Michael Anteski to Everyone: First causal setting needed 2 sustrates, space & units of space which oscillated producing symmetry breakage. So no "matter' - it's from space Al Schrader3 to Everyone: A proton is a bundle of photons Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Dr. Robert Kiehn is working on that Franklin Franklin Hu to Everyone: That doesn't explain how matter is made out of light. Light is something that comes out of lightbulbs, matter is what I am made out of. I don't see how I am made out of what comes out of lightbulbs. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can chisel of lumps of photons to get quarks, etc. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: off Michael Anteski to Everyone: Quarks etc. derive from elemental ether from space Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Can we get a slide of it ? Franklin Hu to Everyone: You are already automatically equating light and mass and being undifferentiated. But they are differentiated. baunes to Everyone: Matter is DEFINED "what has mass". Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can add photons to protons, I've done it Franklin Hu to Everyone: You just can't say "mass" is made out of "photons" and not exlain what photons are and what happens when they become mass. Franklin Hu to Everyone: What's the physical difference between photons and mass. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Not sure what a photon is but it does have another smaller particle in orbit Al Schrader3 to Everyone: c2 is one group unit of photons Franklin Hu to Everyone: You don't know what a photon is????? Aren't you building a castle in the sky? Jeff Cook to Everyone: Matter has mass...but is not mass. Jeff Cook to Everyone: Mass is a measurement. Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Agreed, Franklin. That is what is being worked on. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Know at some point I will know., Al Schrader3 to Everyone: no Franklin Hu to Everyone: If you're going to propose that matter is made out of a collection of photons, you better know what a photon is. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: It's a particle Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Agreed Jeff Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Very small, and a tiny mass Franklin Hu to Everyone: If its a particle, then why to light waves pass right through eachother instead of colliding like electron particles? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Photons have another single particle in orbit baunes to Everyone: Hu: you just answered your own question "physical difference of photons and particles" Al Schrader3 to Everyone: They travel in sinusoids Al Schrader3 to Everyone: The single particle makes it off center Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can re-collect photons back into atoms. I've done it Franklin Hu to Everyone: So how many photons are in an electron? Michael Anteski to Everyone: Empirical observations not useful for basic theory. Need pure theory - ether theory and first causal rationale Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Frank can you test it Al Schrader3 to Everyone: An electron is 1/1836 of a proton Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Agreed, Greg. baunes to Everyone: The *defintion* of matter is that which has mass. Franklin Hu to Everyone: Huh? How many photons are in an electron - how many in a positron and why do they have opposite charges Al Schrader3 to Everyone: So an electron only has 1/1836th of the photons of a proton Franklin Hu to Everyone: Yeah, but how many in an electron? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: The charges are still a mystery but will be found Franklin Hu to Everyone: Hey, if you know that mass is made out of photons, how come you can't tell me what the structure of an electron is? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: The photons boil off the protons and crash back on Franklin Hu to Everyone: That isn't telling me anything useful about the structure of an electron. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Frank there is a clue, though. Nuetrons split into a proton and one electron. Jeff Cook to Everyone: "[M]atter does not have a universal definition, nor is it a fundamental concept, in physics today. Matter is also used loosely as a general term for the substance that makes up all observable physical objects." - Wikipedia...if that helps anything. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can prove this with an iron bar Franklin Hu to Everyone: I am looking for an explanation what an electron is - my theories don't explain that - so explain it tome if you think mass is made out of photons. baunes to Everyone: Jeff: And read further. NIST/BIMP define matter as "that which has mass" and give the operational procedure to detect mass. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: An electron is a smaller mass of photons than eiither a proton or neutron Al Schrader3 to Everyone: We know for sure it's 1/1836 Franklin Hu to Everyone: That's pretty vaugue - a smaller number. For a physics theory, you need to be more precise. Franklin Hu to Everyone: So, you don't know what the structure of an electron is? Michael Anteski to Everyone: Erheric electronics preceded neutrons etc. The latter formed as small speedy electronics induced aggregates of slower units that sat in nucleus Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Matter is made of photons E = mc^2 is also mc^2 = E Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Wish I could tell you what a structure of an electron is, but can't. I can tell you if you add heat to the nuleus, it pushed the electron farther out Franklin Hu to Everyone: So, basically, you can't tell me how photons are arranged into matter - you are just postulating that with no justification. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: No I've measured it Franklin Hu to Everyone: What have you measured? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: If you add enough heat to the nucleus it throws the electron free (vacuum tubes). Franklin Hu to Everyone: How does that show that mass is made ot of photons? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I've measured the photon force between nuclei Franklin Hu to Everyone: How did you do that and what did you measure? Lou LaFollette to Everyone: As Jeff says, Mass is a measure of matter. As a measure we can estimate the available energy given a particular amount of matter as measured by mass. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I took an iron bar at room temperature and measured the length, then added heat. The bar got bigger in all cases Lou LaFollette to Everyone: How energy is released is an open question. baunes to Everyone: All, some "iron bars" do the opposite effect, they shrink when heat is added. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Energy is entirely photons - all of it Jaythree to Everyone: The universe is vast. All the apparatus for comprehending it is contained in the current stage of human DNA evolution. All the human DNA ever formed to date could be contained in a thimble. Is that enough to be so certain about how the universe works from the scale of sub-Planck to parsec? DNA is shoert on humility :) Franklin Hu to Everyone: How does that explain anything - doesn't mainstream explain that as an expansion due to increased kinetic energy between atoms. Gas also expands under heat and has nothing to do with nuclei force. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can slow the flow of electrons down a conductor by adding heat Al Schrader3 to Everyone: It's not vibration of the atoms, it pressure between the atoms by photons Jeff Cook to Everyone: Lou...in my understanding...mass is a measurment of a type of field of force that all other fields of force are homotopic to. I would agree with Einstein that matter is "the condensation of electromagnetic fields". Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Gas expands from the photons Al Schrader3 to Everyone: \You can use Boils gas law Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Photons bounce back and forth between the nuclei in a balance Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Add more heat (photons) and you get more force/pressure Franklin Hu to Everyone: Even if it expands due to photons, how does that justify this mass made out of photons thesis. All you're saying is that photons come out of mass - that doesn't say anything about how an electron is made out of photons. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: It's a scientidfic proof that nuclei are made of photons Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Thanks, Jeff. How the condensation occurs is the question. I agree with Greg that mass is a property as well as a measurement. Franklin Hu to Everyone: Even if that is proof, "How" are the nuclei are made out of photons. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: If you split Uranium, part of the mass is freed as photons - not a theory Franklin Hu to Everyone: How are they freed as photons? Jeff Cook to Everyone: Matter is stuff...distance, charge, current, time, etc...and mass...are measurements of stuff or lack of stuff. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: How there are freed is a good question. If you measure it, it's all photons/energy Franklin Hu to Everyone: Is it true that you have no explaination for how this conversion takes place? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: they Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Can't tell you, you could work on it Jeff Cook to Everyone: Franklin...I have some theories on how matter could be produced by light exclusively...and I have a few experiments that support it. Franklin Hu to Everyone: That is why I don't consider you answer as "amazing" It would be amazing if you could explain how that conversion occurs, but that is still an open question to you. Jeff Cook to Everyone: But there's still a lot that can be argued again. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Is an open question to all of us Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Jeff - Maybe it is time for you to give another presentation. Jeff Cook to Everyone: Haha...maybe. :) Franklin Hu to Everyone: Not to me, I can fully explain the experimental results without resorting to a mysterious conversion. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Can we get another slide is burning pixels in my screen Jeff Cook to Everyone: Yes...new slide. :) Al Schrader3 to Everyone: We know for a fact that E = mc62. Photons are the reason why. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: ^ Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Good point Al. I have tried clicking on the icon without results. Michael Anteski to Everyone: Try the size icon upper right Franklin Hu to Everyone: The experimental e=mc^2 result can be easily explained without photons. Jeff Cook to Everyone: Yeah...I can't adjust the zoom icon either/ Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Interesting Frank explsain ? Jeff Cook to Everyone: But I'm not worried about my monitor...I just am anxious for something new to look at. Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Greg - Can you adjust the slide? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Me also Jeff Franklin Hu to Everyone: The energy e need to be thought of as a specific kind of energy - like kinetic energy E = 1/2mv^2 Al Schrader3 to Everyone: THe kinetic force is cause by bombarding photons Franklin Hu to Everyone: The equations e=mc^2 is experimentally justified by watching what happens when you collide an electron and positrion which produces gamma rays measured as mc^2 Jerry Hynecek to Everyone: Does anyone know what makes people ramble? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: LOL Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I like it Frank Franklin Hu to Everyone: Here's the secret. An electron and positron are oppositely charged and accelerate towards each other very, very fast - in fact to the speed limit which is C Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Where it gets interesting is trying to smash two hydrogen atoms into a helium atom Franklin Hu to Everyone: So we have two particles heading at each other at the speed of light and with a kinetic energy of E = 1/2mc^2 Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Ok Al Schrader3 to Everyone: But the masses are incredibly small Franklin Hu to Everyone: When they finally collide, it is an inelastic collision and conservation of energy requires the kinetic energy be released. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You should get photons going in all directions Franklin Hu to Everyone: The kinetic energy is 1/2mc^2 (electron) + 1/2mc^2 (positron) which adds upto E = mc^2 Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I've smashed atoms into light Jerry Hynecek to Everyone: Here is an interesting paper: http://mb-soft.com/public4/neutrino.html Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I get it Frank - very eloquent Franklin Hu to Everyone: So the energy we measure is just a realease of the kinetic energy of the collision. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: All energy is photons, so we are measuring photons Franklin Hu to Everyone: I would say the electron and positron still exist after the reaction and form a new neutral particle, I call a poselectron. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Or a neutron ? Franklin Hu to Everyone: Neutrons decay, this poselectron would not decay. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Interestring baunes to Everyone: The SoL and the RSoL MAY have different meainings. Franklin Hu to Everyone: I would also say that there is a poselectron sea - which is why we don't see a newly formed particle because it gets lost in the sea. Michael Anteski to Everyone: Neutron decay only in freed state Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Micheal there's another question. Why ? Franklin Hu to Everyone: Now, all I have to do is get someone to experimentally prove that the poselectron exists, then I can collect my Nobel :) baunes to Everyone: What do YOU mean by "relative speed of light"? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I've already been recommended for the Nobel. I got over it Michael Anteski to Everyone: Al 3, neutrons are resonating with a very different ambient setting Al Schrader3 to Everyone: PLease explain Mike ? Michael Anteski to Everyone: Al, this would get into ether theory, the idea that the ether is non inertial and contstantly in resonance with everything around it Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I could never detect either Franklin Hu to Everyone: So Al, what did you think of my e=mc^2 explanation which doesn't require mass convert into energy? I fully conserve mass and energy in my explanation. Michael Anteski to Everyone: Ether being trasmissional unlike the ether of Michelson Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Frank is interesting but the experiments I've done suggest direct conversion Franklin Hu to Everyone: There are experiments showing a strict relationship, but that doesn't suggest conversion to me. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Testing in a lab answer a lot of questions and creates more Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Frank you can have theories, but in the end solid results really prove or disprove it Michael Anteski to Everyone: Al, I have a field test for the ether but lack the funds to do it Franklin Hu to Everyone: Yup, that is why the poselectron must be found - expeimentally, this can be done. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Well Mike, you need to seek funding Michael Anteski to Everyone: Al I need someone scientific to tell a potential backer about it Franklin Hu to Everyone: Mike, what is the aether made out of in your theory Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Mike sounds like you are the expert and should hit the sidewalks Michael Anteski to Everyone: Frankiln, the ether is made mostly of elemental vanishingly small units which resonate leading to larger particle capacitys Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Nick - I agree. Jim Marsen to Everyone: A basic description of the ether theory Glenn mentioned is at http://vixra.org/abs/1403.0293 Franklin Hu to Everyone: Mike, how can you experimentally detect your vansishingly small units. Michael Anteski to Everyone: Al I got the ether model from an "obscuure" source via codebreaking - the fielld test design also Michael Anteski to Everyone: Franklin- the idea would be to show a decrease in density inside the test system. Also to see the properties of a new energy Franklin Hu to Everyone: So, do you have no direct experiment to show your aether particle exists? Michael Anteski to Everyone: Franklin, a decrease in densities would be evidence for an ether. No other energy system doies that Franklin Hu to Everyone: Do you know what you aether particle is made out of? How can you find something that you don't know what it is? Michael Anteski to Everyone: Franklin, I gave the rough model way back in this discussion, it comes from space and oscillation of elemental points of space Franklin Hu to Everyone: How can you possibly say your aether has these properties if you don't precisely know what these aether particles are? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Different atoms produce differing sized graviton targets depending on the number of particles in the nucleus Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Lead has more protons, than hydrogen, for example. Franklin Hu to Everyone: Has the graviton been proven to exist? Michael Anteski to Everyone: Franklin, there is an assumption that something started the world -the two substrates were space and units of space, which logically had to be oscillating elemental points of space Al Schrader3 to Everyone: In my lab, sure Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I discovered it Greg Volk to Everyone: deceptiveuniverse.com Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Thanx Greg Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Could you start with first slide and work us through ? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: What is ether ? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: How does it slow photons to c ? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: LOL Michael Anteski to Everyone: Once the symnetry of space was broken, the "disturbance would have propagated throughout space Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Mike from the Big Bang ? Michael Anteski to Everyone: No Big Bang. This gets into non random management entities who balance the forces in cosmos Michael Anteski to Everyone: A non randomn propagation from God source - not Big Bang -but similar astronomy Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I agree Mike Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I never say something can't exist Al Schrader3 to Everyone: lol Jeff Cook to Everyone: Just need to know where to look. :) Michael Anteski to Everyone: You can't have pull gravity without non random rebalancing of polarities in the ether Jim Marsen to Everyone: Microparticles are only detected indirectly Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Gravity pushes Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Dark matter Jim Marsen to Everyone: yes Michael Anteski to Everyone: An etheric matrix allows projection of self-propagating systems in cosmos Al Schrader3 to Everyone: It can't collapse because light is pushing it appart Al Schrader3 to Everyone: field ? Jim Marsen to Everyone: that's why it can't be observed - it is the medium of transmission Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I don't make fun of aliens Jim Marsen to Everyone: of EM radiation Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Light is slower through water Al Schrader3 to Everyone: And faster in a vacuum than though air Jim Marsen to Everyone: and slower through denser ether which is denser around stars and planets Jeff Cook to Everyone: Why "should" they be sticks? What is the reasoning? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: String theory Jim Marsen to Everyone: maybe not a strict analogy to crystal or gas Al Schrader3 to Everyone: If you tie the strings together you get clothesline theory Jeff Cook to Everyone: Sticks made out of electrons? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Jeff, I seldom question any idea because I've been wrong more than once Jeff Cook to Everyone: I'm wondering why Franklin can't be agreeing with the sticks...they could be sticks made out of electrons...just as Franklin said. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: An electron has mass 1/1836 of a proton Al Schrader3 to Everyone: You can calculate the exact mass of a proton with Avogadro's number Franklin Hu to Everyone: If you don't need sticks - why use them? Franklin Hu to Everyone: I don't need sticks because I don't need them. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Yeah Frank but we all have ideas Franklin Hu to Everyone: Yes, either you can base your ideas off of something equivalent to little green men, or you can base it offf of something we know exists experimentally (positrons and electrons) Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I searched a sighting aera near the spsace center then got hunted down by ETs. Was awful Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I'm not joking Jeff Cook to Everyone: because light travels in a 2D transverse wave...any aether must be solid, static. It's not a sea...more like we are the electrical charge passing through a solid conductor. Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Glenn - Are you aware of Al's experience? Franklin Hu to Everyone: I would disagree that light travels in a transverse manner - it travels exactly how sound travels Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Yes Frank and it slows down too creating the red shift Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Between galazies is very little gravity Franklin Hu to Everyone: Yes, exactly, water waves expand as they move from the source. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Ok Frank, then there was no Big Bang Franklin Hu to Everyone: I wasn't there, I can't tell, but I'm a skeptic of the big bang Jeff Cook to Everyone: I'll type. Franklin Hu to Everyone: Jeff, we can't hear you? Jeff Cook to Everyone: Can you read? Jeff Cook to Everyone: Chat! Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Me too Frank Jeff Cook to Everyone: Okay...I'll ask... Al Schrader3 to Everyone: LOL Jeff Cook to Everyone: Aether must be solid in nature, static. Jerry Hynecek to Everyone: YEs I agree Jeff Cook to Everyone: EM is transverse. Yes, Jerrald...but it does.. Jeff Cook to Everyone: Exist in some respect. It's real. But what it is. Jerry Hynecek to Everyone: Vibrating stics Jeff Cook to Everyone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_wave Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Electrons have a size Al Schrader3 to Everyone: The electron is made of photons, and the photons are held in place by gravitons Lou LaFollette to Everyone: particles are distinguishable. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Good work Michael Anteski to Everyone: Vibrating and with resonance "nodes" which loosely lock Franklin Hu to Everyone: Al, you need to draw a picture of an electron. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: New ideas are how things improve Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Ask Higgs Jim Marsen to Everyone: Don't need to assume that ether is a solid to get transverse EM waves Al Schrader3 to Everyone: They are building a bigger collider Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Was in the ALICE detector Sam Wise to Everyone: Picture of electron: http://io9.com/the-first-image-ever-of-a-hydrogen-atoms-orbital-struc-509684901 Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Cool Sam Sam Wise to Everyone: That same person denies the reality of the Neutron, which we measure in an abundance of Carbon 12 decaying into Carbon 14 Al Schrader3 to Everyone: See if we can get field trip tickets to the LHC Sam Wise to Everyone: Greg, on the Internet, there is a video of you doing a presentation of Rado's Aether Theory. But you never mentioned this at all. Why? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I would agree with the Higgs only I found something else Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Yeah Franklin Hu to Everyone: Nice discussion, I need to drop off now... Al Schrader3 to Everyone: But I still like CERN Jim Marsen to Everyone: By definition: Energy is either kinetic - the movement of matter or potential - the ability to cause matter to move - no mystery except what SR gave us Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I neutrino is about 200 times the mass of an electron Franklin Hu to Everyone: Love CERN, but totally wrong physics ... Sam Wise to Everyone: Scam used twice! Jim Marsen to Everyone: When matter seems to disappear, it is actually dispersed into the ether particles Sam Wise to Everyone: Greg, on the Internet, there is a video of you doing a presentation of Rado's Aether Theory. But you never mentioned this at all. Why? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: They are building a new collider even bigger Sam Wise to Everyone: Mis-doing!! Sam Wise to Everyone: That is what I am saying; Mis-doing! Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Are the Dehilsters doing okay ? Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Strongly agree, Greg. I am in touch with Dr. Kiehn Al Schrader3 to Everyone: I already have the answers to the Thero/electro questions. They can email me Jeff Cook to Everyone: Jim, please explain more how it could be anything other than solid. Thanks. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Is David back to work ? Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Ok thanks Jim Marsen to Everyone: I believe my Tron theory presents an ether model that supports transverse waves without being a solid due to its postulated dynamical properties Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Tell David to try Melbourne, FL Al Schrader3 to Everyone: WoW 100 Jeff Cook to Everyone: Well...a solid might be like a gel then...as opposed to a liquid. Al Schrader3 to Everyone: Have a great day !!! Lou LaFollette to Everyone: Thanks Glenn and Greg enddoc