/home/bill/Documents_Toshiba/150228 CNPS, Panel - Open Debate on Relativity Objections and Alternatives.txt 28Feb2015 ********************** Interesting comments Ron Hatch ?30 patents? on GPS systems - David de Hilster quotes in film something like "GPS exposes General Relativity's flaws"? Nick Percival? - particle colliders use ECI frame, which is Lorentzian, NOT Special Relativity ETI frame for accelerators - but only one frame, so SR & Lortentz agree Harry Ricker - Marckus ?Possils? website? - interesting discussion on reference frames ********************* Howell's comments HB Me 7:51 am I join by browser, I don't have mic ability with this connection. (This message was sent to all presenters 8:40 am I became skeptic about relativity as soon as I looked into it seriously, considering both a few standard descriptions from the physics community, and MANY critiques of the theory, data interpretations etc. I try to force myself into a "Multiple conflicting hypothesis" mindset rather than having to decide "which theory is THE truth" inner need. What I see are huge failures of relativity, buried by the dogmatic beliefs of the overwhelming consensus of mainstream scientists. That doesn't mean they're wrong (even a deliberate lie can turn out to be the truth), just that I certainly feel no need to believe them, and while I won't throw the idea away, I may not spend my priority time on its further development or application. It was natural for me to be an "instant skeptic" because of my many experiences over decades with other science [fashions -> cults -> religions], starting especially with environmental issues like : - "we're all going to die from dioxins" - "CFCs and the ozone layer" - "CO2 is the primary driver of modern climate" It is now my "cautious approach" to assume that the catastrophic failure of [rational, logical, scientific] reasoning is the norm rather than the exception right across science, but according to a "Principle of generality". This contrasts with what I mainly see - lots of [creative, brilliant, fun, insightful] papers, but according to the "Principle of locality", which means that their work largely conforms to the great science religions in their field of expertise. "Strong thinkers" I define as being those scientists capable of looking at data, often at the most simple and introductory level, and seeing that there is a problem with their religions. My estimate, based on several "science catastrophes", is that strong thinkers comprise less than 1 in 10,000 expert scientists in a field. Creative thinkers who bring successful, revolutionary concepts to the table are much more rare, but I don't use the word "genius" because I am less and less convinced that "mythical genius" exists other than our desire to have the [super-scientist, super-athlete, super-leader, super-rock-star]. Phil Bouchard - I'm using Linux as well, but 32 bit so can't download fuze. But I was getting video earlier in this meeting (just a text papge of the meeting), but htat has disappeared. (This message was sent to all presenters) 9:06 am David de Hislter - There is no double bubble as you referred to it to help with the chats, but I'm running Linux in browser mode. (This message was sent to all presenters) ****************** Chat record GV Greg Volk 7:51 am Everybody seeing this? SB Steven Bryant 8:36 am Group Chat Test GV Greg Volk 8:47 am This is the group chat SB Steven Bryant 8:48 am David, you're the only one I've seen able to post here in Group Chat. All the others seem to go to people individually. GV Greg Volk 8:49 am Because people need to click on the bubble with two conversation bubbles. 8:49 am The default is to chat in your own personal chat area. DJ Daniel Jencka2 8:51 am Can he please speak closer to the mic? SB Steven Bryant 9:03 am Hello! :-) PB Phil Bouchard4 9:03 am Test GV Greg Volk 9:03 am See you Phil! SB Steven Bryant 9:03 am Phil - got your test PB Phil Bouchard4 9:04 am I'm trying Fuzemeeting under Linux... the video is lacking 9:07 am I need to make a presentation... and present my experiment proposal (see: www.finitetheory.com) SB Steven Bryant 9:08 am Phil - I would be interesting to see you and Glenn Borchardt debate as he emphaizes Infinity. 9:10 am Actually, SR is not correct. PB Phil Bouchard4 9:12 am Finite is my case applies to a finite number of universes (1) 9:13 am My email address is: pbouchard8@gmail.com 9:15 am Mass increase is incorrect but only a momentum increase caused by time dilation is correct SB Steven Bryant 9:17 am If you assumed time dilation is correct, then you must also accept the rest of Einstien's work and conclusions. They are not seperable. PB Phil Bouchard4 9:19 am According to my calculations, time dilation / contraction is proportional to the kinetic energy / gravitational potential 9:19 am Length contraction / mass increase are not correct SB Steven Bryant 9:20 am Mathematically, you cannot hae length contraction w/o time dilation. 9:20 am http://www.relativitychallenge.com/archives/814 PB Phil Bouchard4 9:21 am I am taking the Lorentz tranformations out of the way SB Steven Bryant 9:36 am Newton's laws continue to work and apply PB Phil Bouchard4 9:37 am Correct. I am just adding time dilation / contraction relative to the kinetic energy / gravitational potential 9:38 am The experiment I propose will test the invariance of the speed of light by sending a wavemeter at Mach 3 SB Steven Bryant 9:39 am There is no difference between a reference frame or a coordinate system. And he does offer a definition - at least for a coordinate system - in his book called Relativity. so in that context, it does apply to physics. PB Phil Bouchard4 9:39 am http://www.finitetheory.com/files/experiment.pdf 9:41 am The strongest gravitational potential defines the local reference frame SB Steven Bryant 9:45 am Here is an example of two statemetns that is true - both only one is true. Is the dress gold and white, or blue and black? Depending on WHO you are (and the explanation from neuroscience) you may see on but not the other: http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112073818575/guys-please-help-me-is-this-dress-white-and PB Phil Bouchard4 9:46 am I agree with the speaker... "The strongest gravitational potential defines the local reference frame" SB Steven Bryant 9:49 am Phil, if you want to follow me and stay commencted, you can do so at www.relativitychallenge.com or my new facebook page associated with my new book at www.facebook.com/StevenBryantAuthor PB Phil Bouchard4 9:50 am Thanks, mine is: https://www.facebook.com/FiniteTheory 9:51 am You are a computer sicnetists just like me! SB Steven Bryant 9:51 am OK. I've liked your page so that I cna follow you. 9:52 am There will be part of my book that I think you'll immediately get! Looking forward to your feedback once it's out! PB Phil Bouchard4 9:53 am Awesome I am looking forward to it SB Steven Bryant 9:56 am Happy to present in the August / September / October timeframe. 10:01 am Applause! :-) enddoc